Re-purposed Thin-Client hardware.

[DomSmith]

I'm seeing a lot of interesting rigs on here but not seen much in the way of re-purposed thin-clients yet, so here's one:

This is an Atrust t176 configured with total disregard for 'best practices and it works just fine...

[Dylan]

@DomSmith - Specs, please!

[DomSmith]

Intel Atom x5-E8000 Quad core 1GHz

4GB LPDDR3 (for now, have higher capacity modules if needed). Rated to PC3-12800 but no idea what speed it's running at.

Used all USB drives but already having problems after rebooting...

That's about it, there is an 8GB eMMC flash module (housing the original Linux) but it's not recognised.

There is also an M.2 E-Key slot, will try a SATA HBA in there later.

 

[DomSmith]

https://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/atrust/t176/

[DomSmith]

OK, so USB Flash drives can be used for 'storage' but mine suffered overheating issues...

So onto a slightly less-bad idea, USB-SATA drives:

[Dylan]

@DomSmith - I like the DIY approach and you seem to have the chops to hack your way through this, but be mindful of the minimum HW and drive requirements - like 8GB RAM and no USB support. Not trying to discourage your efforts, only hope to help keep things in perspective as that is quite a unique build!

[DomSmith]

I'm 100% with you, I'm actually building a 'compliant' rig but wanted to have a play around with this while I'm waiting on parts.

I've got to say; this OS is so quick and easy to install and configure. It's easy for someone who knows very little about Linux / TrueNAS to just have a go at it, and if it's not right just have another go...

[DomSmith]

Another (more capable) re-purposed thin-client with some parts from the spares bin...

Jujitsu Futro S930

AMD GX424CC 2.4GHz Quad core

16GB DDR3

32GB mSATA drive for OS

256GB NVME and 240GB SATA drive(s) for storage pool.

mPCIE 2.5GbE network card.

Works well, will try some other storage options as there is a riser carrying PCIE 2.0 X4 over to a low-profile expansion bay...

[Dylan]

@DomSmith - Love it! Keep'em coming..I love build like this,

[Mawson]

9 hours ago, DomSmith said:

Works well, will try some other storage options as there is a riser carrying PCIE 2.0 X4 over to a low-profile expansion bay...

Toss an HBA in there! Then all you need is something to hold the drives lol

[DomSmith]

I had a look at a JMB582 based SATA expansion board today, this one fits into the 'WiFi' card slot.

It worked pretty well, I had a 2-drive pool connected to it and was able to saturate the 1GbE NIC reading/writing through it.

[Dylan]

^^This guy loves hardware like I do...

[ThijssjihT]

On 12/17/2024 at 11:04 PM, DomSmith said:

Intel Atom x5-E8000 Quad core 1GHz

4GB LPDDR3 (for now, have higher capacity modules if needed). Rated to PC3-12800 but no idea what speed it's running at.

Used all USB drives but already having problems after rebooting...

That's about it, there is an 8GB eMMC flash module (housing the original Linux) but it's not recognised.

There is also an M.2 E-Key slot, will try a SATA HBA in there later.

 

I also have problems with eMMC flash.

For me, a M.2 sata drive worked.

[BlueAsphalt]

On 12/28/2024 at 10:04 PM, DomSmith said:

I had a look at a JMB582 based SATA expansion board today, this one fits into the 'WiFi' card slot.

It worked pretty well, I had a 2-drive pool connected to it and was able to saturate the 1GbE NIC reading/writing through it.

Could you please post the power consumption and which drives you use? I'm looking into a low budget low power system myself too and this has the added advantage of being small 

[DomSmith]

Yes will do.

I've got an assortment of parts here to play around with, any idea what storage and networking you're after?

 

Most of these boards have 1GbE onboard. If you need faster then ypull need to co sider an add-in card and the necessary PCIe and CPU resources to utilise it.

 

How many drives would you want to use?

The minimum (to get it to fit in the case) would be 3 drives, one boot drive and 2 mirrored for storage. 

 

I'm experimenting with 'cheap' 512 GB drives for now (as I happen to have some) but will probably invest in some larger/better ones once I'm happy with the general config.

[DomSmith]

On the bench today I have an old VXL Itona, rocking an AMD A4-5000 (1.5GHz quad core) and 8GB DDR3-1600.

Booting from a 32GB SATA SSD
Storage pool (for test purposes):
128GB (FGFF) mSATA SSD
128GB M.2 SSD (via PCIe to M.2 adapter board).
Optional: 2.5GbE (NGFF) mPCIE card.

Power consumption as measured form the outlet:
Idle - 11W
Load - 24W (Writing @ 1.5Gbps)

 

Network performance was limited to 1.5Gbps by the BIOS being locked down to PCIe Gen1.

I appreciate that this is not optimal and could probably be done better, but it was made from spare parts and all fits inside the case...

[BlueAsphalt]

On 1/1/2025 at 7:56 PM, DomSmith said:

any idea what storage and networking you're after?

My rough idea is to go with the raidz1 minimum specs for now but with 16gb ram and minimum power.
So three hdds, a boot drive, 16gb ram, and cpu that can handle 2 users on plex simultaneously.

[dinecoj]

10 hours ago, BlueAsphalt said:

and minimum power

Something to consider is that SSDs are more power efficient than HDDs, albeit at a higher price / TB.

 

I couldn't stand the clicking of the HDDs in my NAS in my office, but the power savings are also nice for something on 24/7

[DomSmith]

On 1/3/2025 at 11:05 AM, dinecoj said:

Something to consider is that SSDs are more power efficient than HDDs, albeit at a higher price / TB.

 

I couldn't stand the clicking of the HDDs in my NAS in my office, but the power savings are also nice for something on 24/7

Can't disagree with you there, that clicking is not particularly pleasant.

However I don't know how Hex handles HDD timeout and spin-down as I don't have any suitable HDDs to test with.

Presumably if you only use your NAS periodically and the drives are set to spin-down the power savings from using SSDs would be negligible.

 

[BlueAsphalt]

21 hours ago, DomSmith said:

Can't disagree with you there, that clicking is not particularly pleasant.

However I don't know how Hex handles HDD timeout and spin-down as I don't have any suitable HDDs to test with.

Presumably if you only use your NAS periodically and the drives are set to spin-down the power savings from using SSDs would be negligible.

 

From what I've read, truenas doesn't spin down HDDs since they're constantly being checked for errors 

[DomSmith]

On 1/11/2025 at 11:09 AM, BlueAsphalt said:

From what I've read, truenas doesn't spin down HDDs since they're constantly being checked for errors 

Well, I had to log into the TrueNAS management console to find it but it does appear to be there.

Storage / Manage Disks / (select a disk) Edit Disk.

There is a 'spindown' option there, will have a play with these and see how they affect power consumption...

[DomSmith]

On the bench today I have an old Fujitsu Futro S930, running an AMD GX-424CC (2.4GHz quad core) and 16GB DDR3-1600.

Boot pool is an mSATA SSD on the board and a SATA SSD in the 'expansion bay' area, both directly connected to the SOC via the motherboard headers.

Storage pool is 4 x SATA SSDs also in the 'expansion bay' under the PCIE riser.

HBA (connected to PCIE riser) is a 81Y4494 4-channel SATA 'IT mode' card.

2.5GbE (NGFF) mPCIE card.

 

Power consumption as measured from the outlet:
Idle - 15W
Load - 32W (Writing @ 2Gbps)

 

Challenges with this one:

1 - Manual BIOS modification required to change the PCIE speed (for NIC and HBA) from gen1 to gen2. For more info, check out this link: https://www.reddit.com/r/homelab/comments/1d722m5/first_homelab_fujitsu_futro_s920/?rdt=65533

2 - Not a lot of space so the SSDs had to be removed from their 'housing' and stacked on m2 pillars (like motherboard standoffs but smaller...)

3 - Powering the SSDs; I had to make up a custom cable for this, splitting off from the ATX header (uses same connector as a FDD) on the motherboard. I cut and soldered together a FDD power cable from a scrap PSU, and some USB Header to SATA cables like these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/205143130740?var=505859057128

 

I'm currently testing Plex with no issues so far, it's happy trans-coding a 4K BD-'backup' to my phone while also streaming other media to a couple of clients, while being hit with Crystal Disk Mark at the same time.

When streaming DVD-'Backups' to 2 clients the power consumption settled down to just 17W.

 

This box is fanless and completely silent, but it needs to be stood on it's end to encourage enough natural convection through it's internals.

In particular I noted that the PCIE SATA card gets rather warm, like many others I've seen it's designed to be fitted in a conventional server with quite aggressive case/chassis cooling.

 

[Ioannis]

On 12/28/2024 at 10:04 PM, DomSmith said:

I had a look at a JMB582 based SATA expansion board today, this one fits into the 'WiFi' card slot.

It worked pretty well, I had a 2-drive pool connected to it and was able to saturate the 1GbE NIC reading/writing through it.

Hi there @DomSmith, I like your "think client" endeavors. I had can't across such an expansion card myself, but I was wondering "how do I power up the drives that I connect there?".

How would you do that. Care to throw some ideas? I may end up using some in the future for my build. 

Thanks in advance, keep up! 

Cheers!

[Ioannis]

On 1/17/2025 at 11:13 PM, Ioannis said:

I had come* across such an expansion card myself, 

 

Edited January 19 by Ioannis
Correction message

[DomSmith]

Hi @Ioannis, yeah this can seem like quite an issue until you really have a look at what's going on with SATA power.

In very loose terms; the original SATA power spec has 12V for larger motors (like those found in 'Desktop' HDDs), 5V for smaller motors (like those found in 'laptop' HDDs) and 3.3V to power the ICs etc.

SSDs have no 'high power' motors so there is typically no need for the 12V (or 5V*) line, but they need a lot more 'clean' 3.3V than the interface can deliver (to power all those flash packages).

*Most modern consumer grade SSDs, derive their 3.3V supply from the 5V line, and often need nothing else. (This is nothing new, mechanical HDDs have been doing this for some time...)

Anyway, before I ramble off tooo far, if you're using a 2.5" SSD you'll most likely find it only needs a 5V supply.

Furthermore, because it's using an onboard regulator to bring this down to 3.3V; the 5V supply doesn't need to be exactly 5V for it to work.

 

For 'test purposes' you can pinch a 5V supply from the USB header/port, then if it works out have a look at a better method.

Most of these mini-ITX / Thin-ITX boards will include a single SATA or ATX connector, although for some reason they can be the wrong gender just to add to the confusion.

If you look at the pics of the Fujitsu Futro S930 build above, you'll see a 'ketchup and mustard' cable coming off the motherboard. This is a mini-MOLEX connector carrying 12V and 5V for this purposes.

Whatever you use, be mindful that the 5V supply is coming from somewhere and care must be taken not to overload the source.

USB headers are usually pretty safe as they typically have over-current protection.

SATA and MOLEX headers are capable of delivering much more power, but the overall power supply for the unit may be less than 35W, so don't be thinking you can run more than a couple of drives without external/supplemental power.